To run a LSD or Not run a LSD

Discussion in 'Tuning General' started by witrucker79, Jan 10, 2011.

  1. witrucker79

    witrucker79 Licensed Racer

    Well I seam to have a problem setting up my car trying to decide if I have a suspension problem or if its in my LSD so if I take 1 tuneing adjustment out of the deal would I be at a constant disadvantage?.What has worked best for you all and were have you found it best to start tuneing? start at my springs,shocks,Ect? what are the Pros/Cons of Running/Not running a LSD.Any help is appriciated thank you:sHa_thumb2:

    PS. Ive raced in the past so I understand the suspension just not how to make it alll work together
     
  2. strathound

    strathound Licensed Racer

    I tune without the LSD first. I get the fastest lap times I can without it, tweaking everything else first. Then I add the LSD and do some more laps. If I get faster, I keep it on. If I get slower, I take it off or adjust the settings and try again. I usually get faster. Start off with a low setting, like T:10 A:20 B:20. Then run laps and watch for signs that things need an adjustment. Basically, think of it in terms of adding oversteer or understeer, that's what helped me. If I notice while breaking that my tail likes to slip out (oversteer), I'll raise the braking setting and try again. Same thing with acceleration. If I've got some oversteer in the corners, I'll crank up the setting for Acceleration in the LSD.

    The initial torque setting is still a bit of a mystery. But my experiments seem to indicate that it also introduces understeer. Raising it makes the car more stable during braking and acceleration, but it also causes understeer. So it kind of functions like TCS and ABS at the same time. I've been running on about 17 recently. Don't know why, just feels good.

    HTH,

    Michael
     
  3. Outlier73

    Outlier73 Licensed Racer

    I've been buying the LSD for most cars I race but haven't had the need to mess with it too much. Honestly I think I've been buying it because GT5P didn't allow you to adjust LSD and it's something I really missed. (I found it essential when I used to play Forza 2 to turn out oversteer in rear drive cars.)
     
  4. strathound

    strathound Licensed Racer

    Followup question: does the LSD reduce overall speed in a straight line? Seems like it does to me, slightly.
     
  5. clacksman

    clacksman Licensed Racer

    Oh really ...

    Turning it up or just installing it?
     
  6. strathound

    strathound Licensed Racer

    Ummm, seems like the more you dial it up, the more it has resistance? Might be my imagination. I just notice when guys post real fast times and their tunes, the LSD is usually set as low as possible. I'm assuming that's why.
     
  7. clacksman

    clacksman Licensed Racer

    Interesting. I'll see wat I can see about that at some point.

    lol those aren't connected directly IMO. I like the LSD as low as I can so it doesn't resist me turning the car (just enough to get rid of most of the one-wheel-peel), not just so I get top speed.
     
  8. RackAttack

    RackAttack Licensed Racer

    In theory it's only stealing speed when turning, aka when the two drive shafts have different levels of resistance. In a straight line, the LSD should not make a difference, as both of the shafts are spinning with the same resistance.

    It is only when the two drive shafts have different resistance that the LSD does anything differently than not having an LSD. I put my numbers as low as possible while still avoiding wheelspin in turns, because if it's higher than that then it is robbing some potential torque with little to no benefit.

    Edit: I basically said the exact same thing as clacks. Am I supposed to post a picture of a tree or something now?
     
  9. clacksman

    clacksman Licensed Racer

    Optional edits are optional.

    The thing I just thought of if the LSD is slowing you in a straight line; go straight on the straightaways. Which is pretty much wat RackAttack just explained.
     
  10. strathound

    strathound Licensed Racer

    "Go straight on the straightaways." Best advice ever? Just saying. :)

    Ok, so here's another observation. If you uninstall the upgraded LSD, you still have the standard LSD, right? I mean, there's still a diff in there, it's just not customizable. I've been looking at the settings in that thing. You can't change them. But it looks like that's your baseline. And my current theory is that if you set your numbers above those numbers, you are adding oversteer (plus additional torque settings). And if you set them below those numbers, you are adding understeer. I'm not saying this is 100% accurate yet. I'm still experimenting.

    MS
     
  11. pierpressure_1

    pierpressure_1 Licensed Racer

    From the "in game " description ,raising any of those numbers will dial in more understeer. From my experience I believe that is the case. I prefer a bit of oversteer ( just a bit ) and I generally need to lower those numbers,especially the brake torque.
    I run an AT and use the controller and really miss the 1.5 rear gear set that was available in earlier GT's. Needed the brakes with it, as engine braking was nil,but ,I seemed to lose much less momentum with the 1.5. Have yet to find a setting in the LSD that seems the same as the 1.5 ,though it appears close on some cars.

    .....Larry
     
  12. Blackyk

    Blackyk Licensed Racer

    Even after reading the In-Game info on the IT numbers on the LSD, I'm still some-what scratching my head on what the Initial Torque does for the LSD. Does it adjust the amount of tq required to just activate the LSD or to keep one of the wheels from spinning out faster than the other? The higher up the number, the more the car will get the one wheel squeal or the lower the number, the more one wheel squeal, when coming out of corners, mostly really hard down low 2nd gear corners, like Turn 1 at Spa or turn 4 at Rome (Both right handers). Sorry for the commas but I hope that is a clear enough explanation of my question!
     
  13. SSRacing69

    SSRacing69 Administrator

    The LSD is one of those area's in the game where the numbers just don't seem quite right. I prefer to run small numbers because I like to run my cars a little on the loose side. If the initial and/or the acceleration is set high, the car takes more wheel input to get it to turn in. The down side to this is that it's easier to spin the unloaded (inside) wheel which increases tire wear. I compensate for that by squeezing the throttle on instead of mashing it down hard. If I'm struggling with rear tire wear then I will slowly start increasing the acceleration number but NOT the initial. You have to tailor it to your driving style. I typically start my tune with a 5/18/5. If the rear tires are wearing too much then I go to something like a 5/40/5. If you try to eliminate all of the "one tire fire" on the tight corners then you will probably be hurting the handling on the high speed corners.
     
  14. tunernaut

    tunernaut Licensed Racer

    From what I can feel, the higher the initial torque, the move understeer the car will initially have. But I've made tunes that with a more locked up style diff, the car becomes more loose. It'll hook up great in a straight line, but sometimes it'll kick out around a corner. I personally like to have a little one wheel spin. But like others have said to, I like to tune suspension 1st, then fiddle with the LSD afterwards. Some cars, I've found work better with thier stock diff. rather than the LSD. An example, which I can't explain... the Cobra R... the stock diff says on IT:50 accel: 80 braking: 0. It makes no sense, but for me and my tune it works so much better than the default settings for the LSD. I tried all sorts of different numbers with the LSD, but I kept going back to the stock diff on that car. It's sort of hard for me to explain other examples in this fashion, but you want to talk tuning, anytime on the game just get a hold of me. I love tuning cars.

    So in short...
    I like to keep my LSD as loose as possible, with a hint of 1 wheel spin coming out of corners.
    More IT tends to give more understeer, untill you've gone to far and the car starts spinning out again.
    Tune your suspension 1st, and if you're still having problems getting hooked up coming out a turn, at turn-in, or even coming off the line, you might want to try some LSD.
     
  15. SSRacing69

    SSRacing69 Administrator

    I agree with what you're saying tunernaut. Blackyk, the thing to keep in mind about tunning in GT5 is that not everything will work exactly like we think it should in real life. Other example's of this are toe and ride height. I have a mechanical back ground and some of these things really leave me scratching my head. Sometimes changes produce results that just shouldn't happen. At some point you just have to accept that those results are how it's going to be even if it doesn't make since. Nearly every cars "bad" handling characteristics can be reduced somewhat but you probably will not be able to completely eliminate all of the bad effects. At some point you've got what you've got and you have to go with it. This is the point where driving technique takes over, altering your line and brake/throttle/steering inputs to get the most out of the car will get you to the lead.
     
  16. THE_KART96

    THE_KART96 TPRA Staff

    I put the LSD on all cars. But, I run them first with the default settings. Yes, I have added all parts to meet regs and HP. But the suspension is default. After about 5-10 laps I have a feel what is needed and start tuning. Write all changes down so if you make a change and things get worse, you have notes to fall back on to start again. Each car likes a different LSD setting, but they seem to be close to each other. ( Some, not so much. ) Once you feel that the tune works, run a 6 lap race and save the replay. Use the replay to watch how the car reacts. You can learn a few things this way that you can miss while driving.
     

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